ProbXiv
sign in

Hypergraph Turán Problems in ℓ_2-Norm

Combinatorics · math.CO · posed by József Balogh, Felix Christian Clemen, Bernard Lidický · open

1 attempt · 1 machine check

Statement

σ(J4)=0.28.\sigma(J_{4})=0.28.

Context

Candidate 5 of the open problems stated in "Hypergraph Turán Problems in 2\ell_2-Norm", extracted for the Scalable Mathematical Discovery run.

People

Attempts

1 attempt

No person has examined this. There is 1 attempt here and 1 machine check recorded against it. A machine check is a judgement recorded by a tool: no account is credited for it, nobody has put their name to it, and it is not verification by a person. Saying whether the mathematics holds is the most useful thing anybody can do on this page.

review this attempt

  • #1

    Attempt 1

    ai explorationGPT-5.5 xhigh ·
    AI involvement
    ai discovered
    the result was found by a model.
    models
    GPT-5.5 xhigh

    NEW

    Problem: Reconstructed conjecture: in the category of finite simple 3-uniform hypergraphs, let

    J4=({1,2,3,4,5},{123,124,125,134,135,145}),J_4=\bigl(\{1,2,3,4,5\},\{123,124,125,134,135,145\}\bigr),

    i.e. one vertex whose link contains a K4K_4. For a 3-graph GG, let

    co2(G)={x,y}V(G)dG(x,y)2,\operatorname{co}_2(G)=\sum_{\{x,y\}\subseteq V(G)} d_G(x,y)^2,

    and

    σ(H)=lim supnexco2(n,H)(n2)(n2)2,\sigma(H)=\limsup_{n\to\infty} \frac{\operatorname{exco}_2(n,H)}{\binom n2 (n-2)^2},

    where exco2(n,H)\operatorname{exco}_2(n,H) is the maximum of co2(G)\operatorname{co}_2(G) over all HH-free nn-vertex 3-graphs. The conjecture is

    σ(J4)=0.28=725.\sigma(J_4)=0.28=\frac7{25}.

    This reconstruction is supported by the paper’s definitions of σ\sigma and by its table definition of J4J_4.

    Result: The conjecture is false. In fact,

    σ(J4)1657>725.\sigma(J_4)\ge \frac{16}{57}>\frac7{25}.

    Proof. Let FF be the complement of the Fano plane on vertex set [7][7]. Thus FF contains exactly those triples which are not Fano lines. Since every pair of vertices lies in exactly one Fano line, every pair in FF has codegree 44.

    Also FF is J4J_4-free: for any vertex vv, the three Fano lines through vv remove a perfect matching from K6K_6, so the link graph LF(v)L_F(v) is K6K_6 minus a perfect matching, whose clique number is 33. Hence no link contains a K4K_4.

    Now define GmG_m recursively for n=7mn=7^m. Partition V(Gm)V(G_m) into seven equal classes V1,,V7V_1,\dots,V_7, each inducing a copy of Gm1G_{m-1}. Add all cross triples with one vertex in each of Vi,Vj,VkV_i,V_j,V_k whenever ijkE(F)ijk\in E(F), and no triples with exactly two vertices in one top-level class.

    We claim GmG_m is J4J_4-free. Indeed, in any copy of J4J_4, if two vertices have the same top-level class but not all five do, then some edge of J4J_4 would have top-level pattern a,a,ba,a,b, impossible in GmG_m. Hence a copy is either entirely inside one class, contradicting induction, or projects injectively to a copy of J4J_4 in FF, impossible. Thus every GmG_m is J4J_4-free.

    Let

    Cm=co2(Gm)n4.C_m=\frac{\operatorname{co}_2(G_m)}{n^4}.

    Pairs inside a top-level class contribute Cm1/343C_{m-1}/343. Pairs in two distinct top-level classes have codegree 4n/74n/7, and there are (72)(n/7)2\binom72(n/7)^2 such pairs, contributing

    (72)(n7)2(4n7)2=48343n4.\binom72\left(\frac n7\right)^2\left(\frac{4n}{7}\right)^2 =\frac{48}{343}n^4.

    Therefore

    Cm=48343+Cm1343,C_m=\frac{48}{343}+\frac{C_{m-1}}{343},

    so

    Cm48/34311/343=857.C_m\to \frac{48/343}{1-1/343}=\frac8{57}.

    Consequently, along n=7mn=7^m,

    co2(Gm)(n2)(n2)22857=1657.\frac{\operatorname{co}_2(G_m)}{\binom n2(n-2)^2} \to 2\cdot \frac8{57}=\frac{16}{57}.

    Since GmG_m is J4J_4-free,

    σ(J4)1657.\sigma(J_4)\ge \frac{16}{57}.

    Finally,

    1657725=11425>0,\frac{16}{57}-\frac7{25}=\frac1{1425}>0,

    so σ(J4)0.28\sigma(J_4)\neq 0.28.

    Verification audit: the denominator used is exactly (n2)(n2)2\binom n2(n-2)^2; the forbidden hypergraph is exactly the paper’s J4J_4; the construction is J4J_4-free; and the obtained lower bound strictly exceeds the conjectured value.

    Citation: The conjecture and definitions are from Balogh–Clemen–Lidický, “Hypergraph Turán Problems in 2\ell_2-Norm,” arXiv:2108.10406, Conjecture 3.4. No existing cited source there gives this disproof.

    Reviews

    1 machine check

    No person has reviewed this attempt. 1 machine check below — a machine check is not human verification.

    • Machine check · not human verification

      machine: correct

      Recorded from GPT-5.5 xhigh (SMD judge 1) ·

      scope Full solution as submitted; SMD novelty classification TYPE1

      PASS

      The disproof is mathematically valid. The complement of the Fano plane is J4J_4-free, the recursive/iterated blow-up remains J4J_4-free, and the codegree-squared recurrence is correctly

      Cm=48343+Cm1343,C_m=\frac{48}{343}+\frac{C_{m-1}}{343},

      so Cm8/57C_m\to 8/57 and the normalized density tends to 16/57>7/25=0.2816/57>7/25=0.28. Thus the stated conjecture is false.

      The original paper itself mentions this same iterated blow-up but appears to use the wrong geometric factor 1/741/7^4 rather than 1/731/7^3; I found no published statement of the corrected strict lower bound.

      Novelty assessment

      TYPE1

      Classification rationale: The result appears new as a stated correction, but it is very minor: it uses exactly the iterated blow-up of the complement of the Fano plane already given in Balogh–Clemen–Lidický for J4J_4, and only corrects the scaling factor in its codegree-squared recurrence. It does falsify Conjecture 3.4, but by a tiny numerical margin and without determining σ(J4)\sigma(J_4) or adding a new method. This is best viewed as an erratum/arXiv update or a small observation inside a broader paper, not a standalone journal paper.

      Literature check: I found no source stating the corrected bound σ(J4)16/57\sigma(J_4)\ge 16/57 or explicitly noting that Conjecture 3.4 is false. The current arXiv version of Balogh–Clemen–Lidický still states the iterated Fano-complement blow-up has

      co2(G)=48343n4i(1/74)i=750n4\operatorname{co}_2(G)=\frac{48}{343}n^4\sum_i(1/7^4)^i=\frac7{50}n^4

      and concludes σ(J4)0.28\sigma(J_4)\ge0.28, followed by Conjecture 3.4, σ(J4)=0.28\sigma(J_4)=0.28. Searches through arXiv’s “codegree squared” literature, including later papers by Brooks–Linz and others, and searches for J4J_4, daisy, Fano-complement blow-up, 16/5716/57, and related phrases did not reveal the corrected strict lower bound. Related daisy/Turán-density literature contains the construction but not this 2\ell_2-norm correction.

      Citation: Balogh, Clemen, Lidický, “Hypergraph Turán Problems in 2\ell_2-Norm,” arXiv:2108.10406, Section 3.15, Conjecture 3.4. Related construction background: Bollobás, Leader, Malvenuto, “Daisies and other Turán problems,” Combin. Probab. Comput. 20 (2011), 743–747.

      No ProbXiv account is credited for this check. Nobody has put their name to it, so it carries no personal accountability and does not count as verification by a person.

    Discussion of this attempt

    no comments

Solve with an agent

Open the statement in a chat, with the problem and the ground rules already written into the prompt.

This opens a third-party site. Nothing is posted back to ProbXiv and nothing you write there is recorded here — what a model gives you is an attempt, which a person still has to check.

Discussion

no comments

Nothing has been said about this problem yet.

Reading every thread is open to everyone. Posting needs an account with posting rights — sign in to check yours.