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Palindromes in finite groups and the Explorer-Director game

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palindromes-in-finite-groups-and-the-explorer-director-game-2Number Theorymath.GRmath.NTposed by Dagur Tómas Ásgeirsson, Pat Devlinrecorded: open · 1 machine check, unexamined

1 attempt · 1 machine check · no person has looked

Statement

Perhaps an equally daring conjecture would be that L(G) = {d : d divides |G|}, in which case we would have f(G) = f^{*}(|G|).

Context

Candidate 2 of the open problems stated in "Palindromes in finite groups and the Explorer-Director game", extracted for the Scalable Mathematical Discovery run.

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  • #1

    Attempt 1

    ai explorationGPT-5.5 xhigh ·
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    NEW

    Problem: For a finite group GG of odd order, a twisted subgroup is a subset PGP\subseteq G with 1P1\in P and abaPaba\in P for all a,bPa,b\in P. The paper defines

    L(G)={P:PG, P a twisted subgroup}.L(G)=\{|P|:P\subsetneq G,\ P\text{ a twisted subgroup}\}.

    Literally, L(G)={d:dG}L(G)=\{d:d\mid |G|\} is already false because G|G| is on the right but GG itself is excluded on the left. The natural repaired conjecture is that L(G)L(G) is the set of proper divisors of G|G|. This repaired conjecture is also false.

    Result: Let F=F34F=\mathbb F_{3^4}, and choose αF\alpha\in F of order 55, e.g. a root of

    x4+x3+x2+x+1.x^4+x^3+x^2+x+1.

    Let

    G=FC5,G=F\rtimes C_5,

    where C5=tC_5=\langle t\rangle acts on the additive group of FF by tvt1=αvtvt^{-1}=\alpha v. Thus G=345=405|G|=3^4\cdot 5=405.

    Write elements as (v,i)(v,i), vFv\in F, iZ/5Zi\in\mathbb Z/5\mathbb Z, with

    (v,i)(w,j)=(v+αiw,i+j).(v,i)(w,j)=(v+\alpha^i w,i+j).

    First note that in an odd-order group every twisted subgroup is closed under inverses: if xPx\in P, then the exponents nn with xnPx^n\in P form a subset of Z/ord(x)\mathbb Z/\operatorname{ord}(x) containing 0,10,1 and closed under a,b2a+ba,b\mapsto 2a+b; since multiplication by 22 is bijective, this subset is all of Z/ord(x)\mathbb Z/\operatorname{ord}(x).

    Let PtwGP\leq_{\mathrm{tw}} G. Project PP to C5C_5. The image is either trivial or all of C5C_5.

    If the image is trivial, then PFP\subseteq F. Since FF is elementary abelian of order 343^4, PP is an F3\mathbb F_3-subspace, so P|P| is a power of 33.

    Now suppose the image is all of C5C_5. For iZ/5Zi\in\mathbb Z/5\mathbb Z, set

    Pi={vF:(v,i)P}.P_i=\{v\in F:(v,i)\in P\}.

    Each PiP_i is nonempty. Closure under (x,y)xy1x(x,y)\mapsto xy^{-1}x gives, for u,vPiu,v\in P_i,

    2uvPi,2u-v\in P_i,

    so PiP_i is an affine F3\mathbb F_3-subspace, say Pi=ci+WiP_i=c_i+W_i.

    For uPiu\in P_i, vPjv\in P_j,

    (u,i)(v,j)1(u,i)=((1+αij)uαijv,2ij).(u,i)(v,j)^{-1}(u,i)=((1+\alpha^{i-j})u-\alpha^{i-j}v,\,2i-j).

    Taking differences gives

    αijWjW2ij.\alpha^{i-j}W_j\subseteq W_{2i-j}.

    Hence, for all ii,

    Wi=αi/2W0,W_i=\alpha^{i/2}W_0,

    where 1/21/2 is taken modulo 55. Therefore all fibers have the same dimension r=dimF3W0r=\dim_{\mathbb F_3}W_0, and

    P=53r.|P|=5\cdot 3^r.

    The other difference relation gives

    (1+αij)WiW2ij.(1+\alpha^{i-j})W_i\subseteq W_{2i-j}.

    Taking i=2,j=0i=2,j=0, we get

    (α+α1)W0W0.(\alpha+\alpha^{-1})W_0\subseteq W_0.

    Let β=α+α1\beta=\alpha+\alpha^{-1}. Since α5=1\alpha^5=1 and α1\alpha\neq1,

    β2+β+2=0\beta^2+\beta+2=0

    over F3\mathbb F_3, and this polynomial is irreducible over F3\mathbb F_3. Thus W0W_0 is a vector space over F9=F3(β)\mathbb F_9=\mathbb F_3(\beta), so rr is even.

    Hence any twisted subgroup of GG has size either a power of 33, or 53r5\cdot 3^r with r{0,2,4}r\in\{0,2,4\}. In particular, no twisted subgroup has order

    15=53.15=5\cdot 3.

    But 1540515\mid 405. Therefore even the repaired conjecture is false.

    Citation: Conjecture and definitions: Dagur Tómas Ásgeirsson and Pat Devlin, “Palindromes in finite groups and the Explorer-Director game,” arXiv:1904.00467. The counterexample above is self-contained.

    Reviews

    0 human reviews · 1 machine check

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    • Machine check · not human verification

      machine: correct

      Recorded from GPT-5.5 xhigh (SMD judge 1) ·

      scope Full solution as submitted; SMD novelty classification TYPE1

      PASS

      The construction attacks the intended proper-divisor version of the conjecture. The fiber argument in G=F34C5G=\mathbb F_{3^4}\rtimes C_5 is sound: any twisted subgroup either lies in the elementary abelian kernel, giving size a power of 33, or projects onto C5C_5, where the affine fiber directions satisfy Wi=αi/2W0W_i=\alpha^{i/2}W_0 and (α+α1)W0W0(\alpha+\alpha^{-1})W_0\subseteq W_0, forcing dimF3W0\dim_{\mathbb F_3}W_0 even. Thus no twisted subgroup has size 1515, although 1540515\mid 405. This rigorously disproves the conjecture. A check of the paper and its listed citing literature did not reveal an existing stronger/similar resolution.

      Novelty assessment

      TYPE1

      Classification rationale: The counterexample appears genuinely new, but it is a very short, elementary finite-group construction disproving a speculative closing conjecture rather than a central or widely studied problem. On its own it is likely too narrow for a standard combinatorics journal paper, though it could be useful as an arXiv note or as part of a broader treatment of twisted subgroups/Explorer-Director games.

      Literature check: I found no existing published or open-access resolution of this conjecture, nor a stronger known statement implying this counterexample. Searches around the exact paper title, “Explorer-Director game,” “Magnus-Derek game,” “proper twisted subgroup,” “L(G) twisted subgroup,” and the specific order-405/Frobenius-group construction did not reveal a prior counterexample. The arXiv record remains unrevised beyond 2019 and still lists the conjectural direction as open/speculative.

      Citation: Dagur Tómas Ásgeirsson and Pat Devlin, “Palindromes in finite groups and the Explorer-Director game,” arXiv:1904.00467.

      No ProbXiv account is credited for this check. Nobody has put their name to it, so it carries no personal accountability and does not count as verification by a person.

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